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Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Duke Case — List of Deleted Duke Basketball Report Lacrosse Discussions

spineless creatures: Patrick Starfish and Richard Brodhead
Duke University President Richard Brodhead and his sorry administration have said: 'It's time to move on and forget the ugly past regarding the Duke lacrosse scandal.' The Duke Basketball Report has chosen to follow the slippery slimy Brodhead path and move on. The Duke Basketball Report has also decided to be proactive in forgetting the scandal.

So all of the DBR forum discussions about the Duke lacrosse case have been deleted. The biggest story in Duke University history is now effectively forgotten by DBR. The thousand(s) of comments, observations, and opinions about the case made by hundreds of DBR members have been scrubbed clean.

Why? There is apparently no explanation offered.

Last year the Duke men's basketball team had a mediocre season, for them, with a 22-8 (8-8 ACC) record and a first round NCAA tournament loss. Based on their new protocol about forgetting the ugly past DBR should delete all the discussions about last year's team.

Here is a list of the 200 deleted discussions at DBR, plus some excerpts at the bottom.

NOTE: All the links below are dead, except where a few "Google cache" links have been inserted to show the copy that Google still has.

You can still find most of these discussions in Google's cache if you wanted to read them. Do a Google search with the exact title and site DBR specific, for example:

"Should Duke Pick Up The Tab?" site:http://www.dukebasketballreport.com
and then view the Cached copy.

discussion:
LieStoppers forum:
Duke Basketball Report PR spin machine in overdrive -- Isn't it interesting how the "Duke Chronicle" has been whipped into shape at long last and now, DBR. I'd love to know how much money Steel and Brodhead have allocated to the PR firm they hired- it seems to be working. [...]


View Full Version : Lacrosse Forum


  1. Nifong's Fate
  2. Brodhead's committee report is out
  3. FODU Petition
  4. Nifong's Pain
  5. And the top ranked team is...
  6. William Anderson's March 6 blog
  7. Duke-MD Game -- Signs in Crowd
  8. Cash Michaels - Has he seen the light?
  9. What Cash Michaels Won't Ask
  10. Coach K Interview on Costas Live on HBO
  11. When Will We Get Some News
  12. Our Call Today
  13. Guess I don't have much of a backbone...
  14. Dismissal?
  15. Prosecutors and the Accuser
  16. Duke Lacrosse Case Attorney Dies
  17. DBR/KC Johnson
  18. Bradley, CBS win Peabody for 60 Min. Lacrosse story
  19. What's the next date?
  20. Nifong's Attorney Pipes Up
  21. Duke Coaches Responsible for Team Behavior
  22. Seligmanns in town
  23. Charges to be dropped against Lax Players
  24. 2:30 News conference.
  25. I just hope...
  26. Writing a Letter To the Editor
  27. AG Declares the Players Innocent
  28. Should Duke Pick Up The Tab? --- Google copy
  29. Ironic
  30. Miss Crystal
  31. What would you have done different?
  32. Over the top
  33. This morning's message from the Trustees
  34. the media - then and now
  35. Al, Jesse, Where's the apology?
  36. A dissenting view, part I
  37. Motivation? Nifong?
  38. Nifong apologizes
  39. ABC News - "Don't Feel Too Sorry For The Dukies"
  40. What if .....?
  41. "Nancy Grace..."
  42. Apologies
  43. Nifong Needs To Loose His Pension
  44. Question
  45. The Herald-Sun: Still lying
  46. Trustees' Silence About K: Is There a Problem
  47. Group of 88: where's the beef?
  48. All you DBR lawyer types
  49. Duke In Wonderland
  50. Percentage of kids under 21 who drink alcoholic beverages?
  51. Accuser as victim
  52. 60 minutes
  53. Newsweek Report
  54. Reade Seligmann on the Today Show
  55. What about the NCCU Chancellor?
  56. Its Not Exactly Over
  57. Prosecutorial Immunity
  58. Re. Pres Broadhead ---From SI
  59. Cash Michaels
  60. Atlanta Journal & Constitution Editorial
  61. Its Not About the Truth
  62. Broadhead misses the point - and still does --- Google copy
  63. Media in the beginning
  64. Wall Street Journal
  65. Ruth Sheehan
  66. Recruiting the two "former" Duke LAX Players back...
  67. AG Report is Out
  68. DBR: Continued Great Job
  69. Wendy Murphy
  70. An Alumni and Parent's Response to the Board of Trustees
  71. Cool it
  72. Group of 88
  73. Getting Down to the Essential Question
  74. Comment re: latest entry with Prof. Joyner
  75. Genarlow Wilson
  76. Feinstein/LAX
  77. Can Someone Enlighten Me......
  78. Durham police now to face the music.
  79. Tom Butters on Duke Lacrosse
  80. Durham Report
  81. Duke and Dowd Settle
  82. Hypothesized impact of LAX case on fundraising
  83. Fundraiser for the legal defense fund
  84. Shutting the lax board down
  85. Quality of Discourse
  86. The Final Four . . . and Beyond
  87. phrase on warm-up shirts
  88. Duke Conversation in L.A.
  89. Seligmann/Finnerty meet on the field
  90. What if the LAX players had actually been there?
  91. Signed Lacrosse Jersey Auction
  92. Lacrosse Tahoe
  93. Have there really been no apologies?
  94. Pressler and Discipline
  95. NCAA Lacrosse Eligibility
  96. question about Nifong hearing
  97. Sue Duke for LAX legal fees? Here's how.
  98. More Duke hypocrisy
  99. what finnerty has been up to
  100. Coach Pressler reaches settlement!
  101. Pressler Book/Public Appearances
  102. Nifong Hearing...
  103. Impact of LAX case on admissions
  104. Editorial Cartoon in today's Charlotte Observer
  105. Nifong Is Resigning!
  106. UNC to announce new "Nifong Law Bldg"
  107. Brodhead re Nifong Resignation
  108. One Year Later
  109. Nifong Guilty
  110. A YouTube tribute to Mike Nifong
  111. Question on the hearing results.
  112. For Lawyer Types Smarter Than I, re: Collateral Estoppel
  113. Should there now be lawsuits? Maybe not
  114. Next Steps: Criminal Actions
  115. Can we change the name?
  116. Worth Reading . . . the Final "Lee Rockwell" Open Letter
  117. Nifong out July 13, why so far away?
  118. on drudge (just typing it, gives me the heebeejeebees)
  119. Duke/Lax 3 Settlement
  120. Duke Settles With Lacrosse Students
  121. Head In the Sand: Not for Potential Recruits
  122. Editorial in Today's NY Post Excoriating Duke
  123. Nifong's Punishment: A Freakish Anomaly
  124. Go, Feds, Go!
  125. 21 June "Durham in Wonderland"
  126. Initiation of Criminal Actions against Nifong
  127. Nancy Grace - Appropriately Excoriated
  128. When did you believe the allegations were false?
  129. Another Durham PD lie
  130. Lamade, Carroll and Ward Not Returning
  131. Advertisement in future Chronicle
  132. Nifong to Resign Effective Immediately
  133. William J. Griffith Award
  134. LAX camp
  135. Cassese leaving for Lehigh
  136. ACC All-Academic Team
  137. (the not quite) Official DBR Lacrosse Board Enemies List Thread
  138. Nifong Criminal Contempt Hearing
  139. Wendy Murphy's nose is out of joint
  140. Duke Lax players leaving for other schools
  141. Nifong to pay costs of NC Bar Commission Investigation and Hearing
  142. Faith and the Duke Lacrosse Case
  143. Where's The Outrage???
  144. Duke and the Police by Jason Trumpbour
  145. Lumping lacrosse w/Minnesota, Oklahoma State, etc
  146. Nifong finally apologizes, Defense drops request for sanctions
  147. Cci
  148. Is it time to close this board? A Poll.
  149. NC NAACP cleans up web site
  150. A "Must Read" from Stanford's Daily
  151. What if the socioeconomic classes were reversed in the Lacrosse case? ---- Google copy
  152. Nifong Bemoans State Bar's Unfairness
  153. Nifong owes the North Carolina Bar ~$9K
  154. People that post on the Chronicle website
  155. Duke Three Civil Suit(s) Process Underway
  156. Durham's insurance company wants to shut down the independent investigation
  157. K.C. Johnson to speak at Page Auditorium
  158. Nifong didn't intentionally lie.
  159. It's Not About the Truth
  160. Nifong - day 2 - he refers to Mangum as the "victim"
  161. Verdict in Criminal Contempt Trial
  162. Newsweek - Favorable review of Johnson/Taylor Book
  163. State Criminal Probe of Official Lacrosse Hoax Misconduct
  164. What Punishment Did The Victim Get for Her Part?
  165. Lax Settlements ---- Google copy
  166. Nifong Jail Day - What's Mike doing right now?
  167. New York Times Review
  168. The Economist Review
  169. Federal Investigation?
  170. In the "Can You Top This?" Category
  171. Sharpton offering $1K if he said Duke 3 guilty
  172. Durham, in its wisdom, endorsed the case and the prosecutor."
  173. Am I wrong....
  174. Bilas in Duke Magazine
  175. brodhead/group of 88 ---- Google copy
  176. What's new in this forum today?
  177. The other shoe drops...
  178. Brodhead apologizes, admits "no support" was given to lax families
  179. Letter to the Vandy Daily Newspaper regarding Houston Baker
  180. Your chance to evaluate Brodhead! - e-mail danblue@duke.edu by Nov. 1 !
  181. Jim Thorpe, Duke lacrosse, and academe
  182. HBO Movie
  183. Additional Durham Complicity in the Lacrosse Hoax
  184. Federal Civil Rights Lawsuit Imminent
  185. A Very Reliable Source
  186. A point in the lawsuit
  187. Until Proven Innocent - A DBR Review
  188. Coleman strikes back
  189. Friends for a Better Duke University (FABDU)
  190. Thomas Sowell column (Oct. 2)
  191. Who0pi Calls for Sharpton to Apologize to LAX Players
  192. 10 October 2007 Herald Sun
  193. Pressler files suit against Duke
  194. Nifong is more crazy then I thought....
  195. Burness To Retire End Of School Year
  196. some mich st felonies
  197. Group of 88 Scholarship
  198. Tobacco Workers: Still Exploited in NC
  199. Cooper Calls For Federal-State Criminal Probe Of Authorities In Lax Case
  200. Stuart Taylor (Until Proven Innocent) speaking at Duke this Friday (Nov. 2)
------
Some excerpts from discussion #28 Should Duke Pic Up The Tab?

greybeard
04-11-2007, 07:51 PM
It seems to me that this is the perfect storm: if presented with a statesmanship that I do not possess, it seems that tremendous benefits would flow if the University would announce that it had decided to defray the expenses incurred by all Duke students, especially the three indicted players, in defending against Nifong's opprobrius actions.

Atlanta Duke
04-11-2007, 08:14 PM
It seems to me that this is the perfect storm: if presented with a statesmanship that I do not possess, it seems that tremendous benefits would flow if the University would announce that it had decided to defray the expenses incurred by all Duke students, especially the three indicted players, in defending against Nifong's opprobrius actions.

The City of Durham and Nifong will get their chance to pay for this.

Duke is no more the proximate cause of Nifong's criminal misconduct than the lax team is for hiring the strippers.

Given all the good $5 million in charitable contributions to other causes could achieve, I respectfully disagree that tremendous benefits will result from Duke picking up the tab for this debacle.

mgtr
04-11-2007, 08:28 PM
Duke did not cause Nifong to behave in a criminal way towards the lacrosse players, but they couldn't wait to jump on the train. I would guess that at the very minimum the two expelled players have a real case against Duke, and could end up with really big bucks.

greybeard
04-11-2007, 08:31 PM
Duke is no more the proximate cause of Nifong's criminal misconduct than the lax team is for hiring the strippers.

Not implying otherwise. That is where the statesmanship that I do not possess comes in.

Seems to me that the AG has set the stage for this. Doesn't Duke gain by picking up the costs incurred by all the LAX players as a consequence of Nifong's opprobrious actions? That is not to condone the hiring of strippers, etc. It is to say, as Brodhead has repeatedly as the case unraveled, that Nifong targeted Duke students for his own political agenda that depended on their status as Duke students. The AG really has put to rest any notion that the LAX players brought this on themselves. I do not see how the University is not hurt by endorsing such a notion. I am sure there will be a torrent of good will and good pub to be gained by its being magnanimus towards its "own" in these circumstances.

But, I have been accused of having had a tin ear before.

mgtr
04-11-2007, 08:35 PM
I agree, Greybeard. Duke may buy wonderful PR and save themselves grief and even more money by ponying up the defense costs for, as you say, "for their own." Even though Duke couldn't wait to throw them overboard earlier, they can probably buy their back in.

Atlanta Duke
04-11-2007, 08:36 PM
Duke did not cause Nifong to behave in a criminal way towards the lacrosse players, but they couldn't wait to jump on the train. I would guess that at the very minimum the two expelled players have a real case against Duke, and could end up with really big bucks.

Duke applied its policy of suspending students indicted for a felony in a non-discriminatory manner with regard to the indicted lax players. Whether that policy is wise, given what we have learned over the past year about how hard it is for a prosecutor to get the grand jury to indict, it is a pretty rock solid defense to any civil suit for wrongful suspension.

The lax player with the best grounds for a lawsuit against the University is the doofus who sent the e-mail about skinning the strippers and then was railroaded out of town.

Atlanta Duke
04-11-2007, 08:47 PM
Not implying otherwise. That is where the statesmanship that I do not possess comes in.

Seems to me that the AG has set the stage for this. Doesn't Duke gain by picking up the costs incurred by all the LAX players as a consequence of Nifong's opprobrious actions? That is not to condone the hiring of strippers, etc. It is to say, as Brodhead has repeatedly as the case unraveled, that Nifong targeted Duke students for his own political agenda that depended on their status as Duke students. The AG really has put to rest any notion that the LAX players brought this on themselves. I do not see how the University is not hurt by endorsing such a notion. I am sure there will be a torrent of good will and good pub to be gained by its being magnanimus towards its "own" in these circumstances.

But, I have been accused of having had a tin ear before.

The lax players are victims, but if a student would get run over by an enraged Durham cop I doubt Duke would pay the medical bills.

Regardless of whether Duke could have stopped this travesty, an opinion with which I disagree, Duke paying the bills would perpetuate the perception Duke could have stopped Nifong, which Brodhead & Company are not about to concede.

I doubt paying the bills would help Duke's image; instead it would look like penance.

DukeUsul
04-11-2007, 08:51 PM
Duke did not cause Nifong to behave in a criminal way towards the lacrosse players, but they couldn't wait to jump on the train. I would guess that at the very minimum the two expelled players have a real case against Duke, and could end up with really big bucks.

What case do you think they have against Duke? The undergraduate judicial code explicitly states that Duke reserves the right to suspend students if there is a risk of harm to them, others or the university. Considering the threats made against the Duke 3..... seems like Duke followed its code in the suspensions. What other transgressions against the three students in particular do you think Duke could be liable for?

I'm not trying to be an apologist for the University - I'm not particularly impressed with how they handled this. But I'm not convinced that the University has any reason to be responsible for their legal costs or any other transgressions against the three. I could see an argument that the University allowed and/or supported and/or fostered threats against their persons (maybe) and hate speech (maybe), but you know, free speech and all....

mgtr
04-11-2007, 09:08 PM
I thought the two players were expelled, not suspended. If they were only suspended, then I stand corrected.
However, look at it from the standpoint of the two players. They are totally innocent, yet Duke throws them off the boat into shark-infested waters. Their lives are wrecked, and Duke has done nothing to help them. How would this play before a jury? Well, we have all seen ridiculous jury verdicts with little or no hard evidence. (Isn't that how NC's favorite son made his money?)
I don't think DU can walk away from this.

mpj96
04-11-2007, 09:27 PM
Well, we have all seen ridiculous jury verdicts with little or no hard evidence. (Isn't that how NC's favorite son made his money?)
I don't think DU can walk away from this.

This kind of hyperbole does little to credit your argument.

I challenge you to provide one tenable legal argument for why Duke should be responsible for the players' attorney fees.

While you are at it, I challenge you to provide one example establishing that a jury verdict obtained by "NC's favorite son" was obtained "with little or no hard evidence".

greybeard
04-11-2007, 10:15 PM
With all due respect, this is oh so counterproductive.

And, a cop running over a duke student has no resemblence to what has happened here, in all due respect.

Nifong has put Duke on center stage in the country, these kids have widespread sympathy, they were persecuted because of their race, high visability as white sports team members who represented the Castle on the Hill. The Univeristy President has been outspoken in their support even before the hiding of dna evidence became public and Nifong supported a changed indictment, and has been fairly strident and proactive in that regard ever more so since.

Now, to me the step of paying defense costs makes a statement about this University that can only be win win. I have also been an advocate of the University's devoting significant money to fund a meaningful public defender's program in Durham, to help prevent injustices that we all know occur all the time on a less visable and one would hope less eggregious scale.

At this point the blame game whether targeted at the students or the University really helps no one. I believe that my proposal helps everyone.

McGrupp
04-11-2007, 11:35 PM
I think it would be ludicrous for Duke to pay the players' attorneys' fees.

I also think, though this is perhaps a separate subject, that the players' families were drastically overcharged by their attorneys if reports of their expenses can be believed.

greybeard
04-11-2007, 11:58 PM
I think it would be ludicrous for Duke to pay the players' attorneys' fees.

I also think, though this is perhaps a separate subject, that the players' families were drastically overcharged by their attorneys if reports of their expenses can be believed.

That's what makes horse races. BTW, you would have risked underpaying?

SoCalDukeFan
04-12-2007, 12:10 AM
I think that Duke has handled this poorly.

Brodhead especially bothers me.

However I see no reason for Duke to play the legal bills.

SoCal
[discussion continues for four pages, until 04-13-2007, 01:11 PM]
-----
From discussion #62 Broadhead misses the point

04-19-2007, 06:11 PM
Hollerman
Broadhead misses the point - and still does
Broadhead missed the point on at least three levels:

1) Athletics in college are a living visible example of excellence, committment and sacrifice. College athletics are not "merely a game" to be dispatched if someone doesn't want to play anymore. Cancelling the season was an awful decision that quite frankly was disrespectful to every LAX college player and coach in the country (and the fans and supporters). If he (or Aleva) suspended every player who attended the party (Yep, all 45 of them) and took an open call to Duke students who were willing to play the LAX games, I would have been supportive. The game is played (and always played) by and for players who have earned the right to play and compete. What if Coach K would have cancelled the season in '95 because his back hurt? No one is irreplaceable either in sports or in life. The game, like life, goes on. I don't think the BOT or Broadhead really understand the role of athletics. Sure, they love the B'ball money, but I see little more than minimal support in other areas as compared to our ACC conference partners.

2) Duke faculty (at least when I was there) has had a negative attitude toward athletes generally (except maybe B'ball). As a football player, older players told us to never wear athletic type clothing to class, always hide your bruises and never sit with other large people. If you do, you'll never get a grade better than a "C" no matter how hard you work. Broadhead, for whatever reason, should have recognized a bias that academia has toward athletics (that probably exists everywhere). Coaches are paid much better than almost every professor, and although exceptions exist, many in academia may well suffer from a prejudice against their more athletically gifted and socially accepted peers from grade school and beyond. Geeks versus Greeks, so to speak. Anyway, Broadhead should have filtered the "society must change" junk out very quickly when this event came to light. He completely ignored the presumption of innocence. His attempts now to explain his behavior then appears to be nothing more than revisionist history.

3) Finally, these LAX players were HIS players. If he had any fortitude at all, he sticks with his people. They are still HIS players today, yet he now must wrestle with having abandoned them in a time of great need. There is an old adage "If a man kills his son immediately at birth, it does not mean he is not a father. It only means that he is the father of a slain child". Visit them in jail, that's fine. Throw rocks at them after their convicted, that's okay too. But their YOUR children, period. You can support AND punish your students if you have to do so. Thank is his responsibility. Not to cast them aside like unwanted children. Does Broadhead really think that cancelling the season separated (or protected Duke) from anything? Nope, It didn't.

And in case one would think that I offer "20-20 hindsight", I emailed Broadhead this very same message in response to an email he sent out to all Duke alumni soon after he suspended the season. I think I started the message by saying "I am, for the first time in my life, embarrassed by my university. Not for the LAX situation, but by your response to it." I didn't "know" whether anyone was guilty, but I did know my school looked like a kite in swirling winds.

We just lost a very good B'ball coach. I'm sure she had her reasons to go to Texas. But I ask, do you really think that this administration and AD support their athletic programs at Duke? If so, your one of the few who do. Ted is a good football coach, and I support him entirely, but Duke has created a situation where droves of other coaches would come to (or even consider) Duke to coach football.

And for those who would have lambasted Broadhead for "sticking with the privileged" and "dragging his feet until it was to late", I suggest that nothing Broadhead ever did or could ever do would appease this radical minority. Maybe things would be different if the players weren't white and male, but if you don't want to defend white male students should they be accused of misconduct, then don't invite them to your school. If you do, then they are yours. I suspect that the two underclassmen will graduate from another university, but they are now and will always be Duke students ... at least for the time they were here. And I for one am horrified at how our administration has treated our fellow students.

In the words of Sylvester Junior (Looney Toons) as he donned a paper bag over his head after his father suffered defeat at the hands of a baby Kangeroo "Oh brother, I am so ashamed"

Broadhead deserves no better treatment than that which he extended to the LAX coach ... and may not deserve to have it that good!
------
04-19-2007, 06:24 PM
Victory Cigar

I agree with your comments. I graduated from Duke 40 years ago. What made Duke different from the Ivies was the conjunction of first rate academics and first rate athletics. That remains a significant part of what Duke is (although football is considerably poorer than in my years). I agree that Brodhead and all those who want to downgrade athletics disparage what the university is. Should Duke become an Ivy, it no longer would be Duke. What it would be is hard to tell.

I am concerned with several things. First, disproportionality. MacFayden's e-mail, taken out of context (or maybe even in the context of the supposed events) was disgusting. But no more so than the assigned publication from which it was taken. If MacFayden deserved suspension, so did the professor who assigned the piece.

Second, there is far too much talk of healing. That is a term that transgressors use to avoid responsibility. Brodhead has demonstrated that he is a person of weak character. Does anyone suppose that Terry Sanford would have handled this matter in the same way? Duke is a divided community right now--but it has been divided by individuals who jumped to conclusions, then refused to apologize. The entire CCI is based on a lie. The 88 published a document that asserted that the Admissions department had populated Duke with misogynistic, racist white males. If true, the Admissions department should be replaced. If not, the 88 should be replaced
[discussion continues until 04-23-2007, 10:17 AM]
-------

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